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Wednesday, May 10, 2006
Dinner Conversation
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36 comments:
Thank you. This was what I was trying to address. I'm going to make another video tomorrow after I've gotten over the shock of the listserv responses.
Jay, you know how my comment about white men was intended, and I appreciate that, but I'm going to clarify my point tomorrow.
Ryanne, I've taken myself to the blogs as a way to get more women involved. Many don't even know they have this option. We should talk about BlogHer because I'm also going to that.
Thanks for a thoughtful post. It helped make me feel a bit better about all of this and of course makes me smile because you two always make these things seem ok (though I'll admit I won't be running to VloggerCon with the open arms towards strangers I had envisioned extending).
Valid points all around. Videoblogging vs. television, women acting more as reps and figureheads (figureboobs?) rather than having their own voices heard, the demographics of videoblogging, the strange habits of boyfriends dominating conversations unknowingly (i got that going on, too...it's totally weird).
This post is the very essence of videoblogging: sure, you could have typed out all the issues, but it would have taken ages, it would have lacked the nuances of the conversation, and it may have gotten all kinds of misconstrued much like that dang "golf hostess" thread!
The thread got so far afield that no one seems to remember that the original plea for a vlog hostess said nothing about how the applicant should look?
(Oh, I know...who am I fooling? They probably weren't looking for Cletus the slack-jawed yokel. I'm just playing devil's advocate for a second).
The original post bothered me far, far less than some of the comments that followed.
Great conversation. Thanks for laying it all out.
Yeah, it's a strange time to be female. A lot of women have been convinced that showing their tits a la Girls Gone Wild is empowering. Hah! We've come a short way, baby.
A lot of young women have been convinced that getting a boob job will get them on TV... that it will make them famous. Maybe so, but what a hollow, lonely existence when men don't look at your face anymore when they're talking to you... unless you've had your lips pumped up like Jessica Simpson, of course.
Videoblogging provides a crucial reminder of what's real and a platform for being heard even if you haven't been nipped, tucked, stuffed and painted into an Anna Nicole Smith or a Pamela Anderson. Even if you're not rich. Or white. Or male. Or a politician. Or a young golf show "hostess". Or a rich, white male politician with a young golf show hostess on his arm.
Vlogging is so refreshing... liberating, actually... because it's like Realivision. It gives real people a voice. It's like TV without the bullshit fakery and skewed physical objectivity that tries to make us feel inadequate in oh, so many ways.
Thanks for the dinner dialogue, guys.
I completely agree about Rocketboom. I never have found that vlog to be very "real". I'm not too concerned about the assholes who are trying to turn vlogs into TV because the true vloggers who vlog for the love of it will stick together and just ignore those jackasses.
Thanks for making me think guys. I never even think about the fact that I'm a white male. When you see white teens all of the time listening to rap music and trying to act "gangsta" and be black you really forget that blacks aren't treated completely equally in the south even now and when you see people like the Secretary of State being both black and a woman, you sometimes forget that women are discriminated against a lot especially in public office. Vlogging is great for getting rid of discrimination and to stop you from "not getting your word in" because anyone with a computer, a camera, and the internet can vlog and people will watch regardless of color, race, or gender (for the most part). I think that women just are less agressive than men and I don't think that the men at these conferences are trying to be rude.
Lets just hope that vlogging continues to stray from TV. My favorite show {Attack of the Show on G4 (what was used to be called Tech TV)} recently hired a completely stupid girl to host the show strictly because she was hot and they needed someone to replace Sarah Lane (who isn't bad looking herself). The difference is that Sarah Lane was smart. I'm so glad that that sex to improve rating thing does apply to vlogging.
If none of what I just said made sense, don't blame me. It's like 1:00 in the morning to I'm just ranting on impulse and not using my brain. Excuse the stupidity if there is any.
Evan (http://e-vlog.blogspot.com)
You know, it's true about having had guy friends all your life - me too! Since I was a kid, it's always been that way. I'm not really sure why that is... It's freakin' me out thinking about it. :) I love hanging out with the girls, except I like doing things where there seems to be a higher concentration of guys. weird. I love all the girls on the vlogosphere. Aagh! I need to rectify this situation!
"And it doesn't have to be that way anymore" may be the most hopeful sentence I've heard spoken from the vlogosphere yet.
Thank you Ryanne and Jay.
Okay - I definitely jumped into the middle of the conversation (I'm new to this vlog).
But I feel hooked... I've been blogging for years now - and I've just recently started vlogging, this site makes me want to just make the shift entirely.
My follow up to this whole discussion
If all women would just wear their burkas like they are suppose to then you Americans wouldn't have these silly problems.
After having seen the nostalgic behind the scenes film about the coffee cup film, I thought you were heading for vlog retirement.
With this video you show that you are as thought provoking as ever.
Amazing post, guys. I've been biting my tongue since yesterday, trying to avoid getting pulled into the email discussion, because I just knew that email was such the wrong way to be having this discussion. I was really angry at the way some people responded to Brittany, and I'm sure an email response on my part wouldn't have alleviated the situation. Your video helped talk out these issues in an honest and open way. Thanks for taking the time to posting it.
http://geekbrief.podshow.com/
http://geekbrief.podshow.com/gbtv-0009-geekbrieftv#comments
Following this, my comments were censored.
My reply:
http://www.mskitka.com/2006/05/11/a-bronchial-reply/
Hi, I wish to know how do you insert videos in your blog. I´m trying to do that in my blog, but I don´t get to do it.
Could you give me some hints? Thanks a lot.
The post went by faster then most 2-3 minute vlogs I watch. When people deal with and relay real issues that people care about duration collapses.
Objectifying any human should be wrong, in principal. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of insitutions (including mainstream media) which perpetuate sterotypes and myths...One can always hope, but I'm not sure that will ever change...
www.bionicbuddha.com
ah shut up and POP A NIP!
Although I am not one for political correctness, I like what you have said. I have found that attempting to be an assertive woman these days usually attracts friendships with lots of guys. One of the hardest things I've ever attempted is being feminine and assertive at the same time. In fact, a lot of the time, I doubt if the two can ever co-exist.
Thank God this isn't television. I coud almost feel our culture shatter when Ryanne listed that television was "sexist, racist, and classist." At least now we have a venue to say it in. I hope Vblogging stays not like television forever. Television is a horrible invention that has only perpetuated stereotypes.
I don't want to live in a world anymore where my boyfriend tells me that I can't cut my hair because he doesn't want to feel like he's making out with a dude.
I don't want to live in a world anymore where people become irked, or hold their breath, when i tell them i am falling in love with a girl.
I don't want to live in a world anymore where these issues are ignored and placed under a label like "liberal" or "democrat" or "conservative" or "republican".
but this vblog makes me realize what kind of world I do want to live in, and that's one where we can talk about these issues, and express in a nice private venue, how we feel. Our world doesn't have to be impersonal anymore, we finally have the ability to learn about things from one another that upset us.
thankyou.
and maybe one day ill have the guts to make a post like this without being anonymous.
and if i do,
its because of shit like this.
How do you post videos on your blog? tell me!
Barrera, go to freevlog.org for a comprehensive guide.
video is objectifying. Video is a an image and images are not the real thing but only one small perspective of the total reality.
"...doesn't have to be this way anymore"...yes, I agree, that was my main issue with this whole thing...
anyway...my point of view/response (if you can hear it in all the rabling) is here
I agree, but not 100%. Not ALL TV is sexist. I mean, its obvious that the actors are ALL BEAUTIFUL, and that the women have to have big tits to make it, but NOT ALL TV is like that.
Today there are so many channels that if I'm interested in nature, I have certain TV channels which are all about nature; if I'm interested in sports, there are TV channels for sports, etc.
Yes, what's nice about videoblogging is that ITS REAL, and made by REAL PEOPLE. That's great! And that's what I like about it.
But it was just a matter of time for -tv shows dressed as videoblogs- to appear. As you said it Ryanne, people will not watch, I mean, maybe once or twice, but ultimatelly the content is more important tha the person giving us that content.
If they're looking for a "hot female" for a golf videoblog, believe me, I'm not going to watch it. Why? Because I couldn't care less about golf. I don't play it and I don't watch it.
What I want to say is that I watch videoblogs (and TV shows, and movies) not for the people, but because of the theme they treat.
omg, this was really a great subject to ignite conversation on...
i have the same thing where all my friends have been guys, all my cousins are guys. i was always the other girl, so i too, just overlook this issue alot. i wonder how to promote women bloggers/videobloggers.
Interesting stuff, but at the same time there is an elitist attitude going on here - "This isn't TV, they posted on the wrong blog"... Shouldn't all points of view be welcome? Yes, it is a silly, juvenile post, but come on; does one person's misguided words deserve this much anger? And by the way, yes - I am a white guy, thank you Killer B for maligning my opinion before I even get the chance to post it. I'd like to think that diversity means more then vilifying white males.
I like a lot your blog, congratulations. You have a big page rank
Ferran
Great site.......I have linked you on my site
ALL TV is sexist, unless of course youre watching National Geographic.
Yes, I couldn't keep my mouth shut. I made a video.
But you knew I was going to make one anyway, so really, there's no surprise here.
Except my boobs. Those are a nice surprise.
Love the vlog man : )
liked the blog liked the topic got interested in the whole thread, unfortunately i'm stuck using internet cafes at the moment so time is money and i've used a heap allready following this.
The issues here are fascinating, i got into all this when I was studying contemporary art and we looked at MUDs (Multi-user dungeons)as the origins for the modern online fractured personality, is Vloging part of this? as 'your mom is like a tree'[Sic] said video is in itself objectifying. That said I agree with other posts that your video conversation explored the issues really well. As you said the emails and postings seem not to be a constructive forum for this kind of debate, you get massive polarisation of views, it's almost a form of electronic graffiti you put your comment up there for the world to see but there's no real comeback. Which is why I have respect for what you've done here, your vlog gives you an electronic credence an e-reputation, a bit like having stars on e-bay. Does this mean the web lacks a productive discussion forum? Anyway I'm rambling off the subject. So i'll go now and leave us on the burning question where is the female voice in society?
PS I am A white male but I'm British, does that help?
hi ryanne and jay,
we very much enjoyed your chicken stroganoff convo. we recorded it along with brittany's rant plus some our own thoughts on the matter for a special edition of our audio broadcast entitled "Radio Wednesday to Vlogosphere."
http://radiowednesday.blogspot.com/
we're not ready for video just yet, but maybe some day.
yours, amy
Take a look at Youtube.com and you will see Sex type Videos pushing the boundries get more comments then any other Videos. It's a sign of how even on a site like Youtube.com the message is lost..
Ryanne's Video Blog is (among other things):
a show
a channel
a consumer's choice
a commodity
It comes free with purchase of a computer and high-speed internet access.
It advertises websites, businesses, a book, clothing, mugs, buttons, browsers, conferences, and more.
Ryanne: "This is not about fucking selling shit, this is about talking to each other and making things that we care about, you know...right?
(pause)
right?"
Jay: (laughing): right! right!
I think selling comes as a by-product of making things you care about, in your case.
I also think there are SOME entertainers and journalists on TV who care about their work, and are not in it for the money, but who get paid a lot. That money comes from advertising, and a lot of that advertising promotes harmful products and/or harmful stereotypes. How to resolve that? I don't know.
My point is that this is a complex issue. I'm conflicted myself. Personally, I choose to watch your vlog over something else because I appreciate discussions like this, and this is where to find them, which is your point about vlogs in the first place. They aren't talking about this on TV.
However, if a racist, sexist, fascist wants to start a videoblog, they are free to. It might even become popular. And, just like before videoblogs, all we can do is speak our minds and try to convince people that we are right.
Keep up the good work.
I'm quite the metro hispanic male -reared in a home entirely dominated by liberal women. My bedtime stories was the SCUM Manifesto. Like you Ryanne, I had more friends of the opposite sex, perhaps because I understood their plight just as I understand yours and Britney's. Most women are accustomed to being silenced in backrooms of popular opinion, and I applaud you for resisting. But I also applaud men like Jay who are unflinchingly opening themselves up to such resistance.
It's wonderful you're in San Francisco because when I was there, I met a woman who was proudly touring with her rainbow flag and saying how homosexual men were condemned by christian fundamentalists in the 80s when AIDS was an epidemic. She was saying that we can't blame men's natural urge to fornicate, and if it's with another man then of course the chances of STDs are doubled. But women are more willing to connect on a more emotional and itellectual level, so naturally they were the least likely to get AIDS. Therefore, lesbians are the chosen people of the world. -her words not mine, just food for thought.
-taxiplasm
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