Wednesday, May 10, 2006

Dinner Conversation

This video is in response to this email, this email and this video post.


Killer B said...

Thank you. This was what I was trying to address. I'm going to make another video tomorrow after I've gotten over the shock of the listserv responses.

Jay, you know how my comment about white men was intended, and I appreciate that, but I'm going to clarify my point tomorrow.

Ryanne, I've taken myself to the blogs as a way to get more women involved. Many don't even know they have this option. We should talk about BlogHer because I'm also going to that.

Thanks for a thoughtful post. It helped make me feel a bit better about all of this and of course makes me smile because you two always make these things seem ok (though I'll admit I won't be running to VloggerCon with the open arms towards strangers I had envisioned extending).

missbhavens said...

Valid points all around. Videoblogging vs. television, women acting more as reps and figureheads (figureboobs?) rather than having their own voices heard, the demographics of videoblogging, the strange habits of boyfriends dominating conversations unknowingly (i got that going on,'s totally weird).

This post is the very essence of videoblogging: sure, you could have typed out all the issues, but it would have taken ages, it would have lacked the nuances of the conversation, and it may have gotten all kinds of misconstrued much like that dang "golf hostess" thread!

The thread got so far afield that no one seems to remember that the original plea for a vlog hostess said nothing about how the applicant should look?

(Oh, I know...who am I fooling? They probably weren't looking for Cletus the slack-jawed yokel. I'm just playing devil's advocate for a second).

The original post bothered me far, far less than some of the comments that followed.

Joshua said...

basically, the person posted on the worng list.... they should have posted a casting call for an actress if that's what they were seeking. They weren't looking for someone to create a videoblog, but rather someone to host a video show to be distributed as a videoblog. I don't think there have been many other casting calls on the videoblogging list, and this one certainly felt out of place. I wouldn't call it sexist though, its just someone seeking to cast an actress, and yes, the director might be seeking someone attractive, even "hot." That's how casting goes.

Carl Weaver said...

Great conversation. Thanks for laying it all out.

Angela said...

Yeah, it's a strange time to be female. A lot of women have been convinced that showing their tits a la Girls Gone Wild is empowering. Hah! We've come a short way, baby.

A lot of young women have been convinced that getting a boob job will get them on TV... that it will make them famous. Maybe so, but what a hollow, lonely existence when men don't look at your face anymore when they're talking to you... unless you've had your lips pumped up like Jessica Simpson, of course.

Videoblogging provides a crucial reminder of what's real and a platform for being heard even if you haven't been nipped, tucked, stuffed and painted into an Anna Nicole Smith or a Pamela Anderson. Even if you're not rich. Or white. Or male. Or a politician. Or a young golf show "hostess". Or a rich, white male politician with a young golf show hostess on his arm.

Vlogging is so refreshing... liberating, actually... because it's like Realivision. It gives real people a voice. It's like TV without the bullshit fakery and skewed physical objectivity that tries to make us feel inadequate in oh, so many ways.

Thanks for the dinner dialogue, guys.

Evan said...

I completely agree about Rocketboom. I never have found that vlog to be very "real". I'm not too concerned about the assholes who are trying to turn vlogs into TV because the true vloggers who vlog for the love of it will stick together and just ignore those jackasses.

Thanks for making me think guys. I never even think about the fact that I'm a white male. When you see white teens all of the time listening to rap music and trying to act "gangsta" and be black you really forget that blacks aren't treated completely equally in the south even now and when you see people like the Secretary of State being both black and a woman, you sometimes forget that women are discriminated against a lot especially in public office. Vlogging is great for getting rid of discrimination and to stop you from "not getting your word in" because anyone with a computer, a camera, and the internet can vlog and people will watch regardless of color, race, or gender (for the most part). I think that women just are less agressive than men and I don't think that the men at these conferences are trying to be rude.

Lets just hope that vlogging continues to stray from TV. My favorite show {Attack of the Show on G4 (what was used to be called Tech TV)} recently hired a completely stupid girl to host the show strictly because she was hot and they needed someone to replace Sarah Lane (who isn't bad looking herself). The difference is that Sarah Lane was smart. I'm so glad that that sex to improve rating thing does apply to vlogging.

If none of what I just said made sense, don't blame me. It's like 1:00 in the morning to I'm just ranting on impulse and not using my brain. Excuse the stupidity if there is any.

Evan (

Zadi said...

You know, it's true about having had guy friends all your life - me too! Since I was a kid, it's always been that way. I'm not really sure why that is... It's freakin' me out thinking about it. :) I love hanging out with the girls, except I like doing things where there seems to be a higher concentration of guys. weird. I love all the girls on the vlogosphere. Aagh! I need to rectify this situation!

Dave H. said...

"And it doesn't have to be that way anymore" may be the most hopeful sentence I've heard spoken from the vlogosphere yet.

Thank you Ryanne and Jay.

Anne Walk said...

nice video. it's very strange to see all of this happening - the move to "tv audience" behaviors. i remember when jay did that vid with the coke product placement and everyone laughed. so silly. who could have even envisioned casting calls for vlogs? and here we are.

i am seriously considering hiring a craig's list babe to play me. she's have to be willing to change her name to Anne Walk (after all, it's one of those old fashioned personal vlogs) but i don't think that would be a problem. booth babes are always looking for some steady income.

linked to this vlog post on loadedpun

Mike said...

Okay - I definitely jumped into the middle of the conversation (I'm new to this vlog).

But I feel hooked... I've been blogging for years now - and I've just recently started vlogging, this site makes me want to just make the shift entirely.

Killer B said...

My follow up to this whole discussion

dltq said...

amazing video. thank you for posting this.

Anonymous said...

If all women would just wear their burkas like they are suppose to then you Americans wouldn't have these silly problems.

kristian nilsson said...

After having seen the nostalgic behind the scenes film about the coffee cup film, I thought you were heading for vlog retirement.

With this video you show that you are as thought provoking as ever.

Andy Carvin said...

Amazing post, guys. I've been biting my tongue since yesterday, trying to avoid getting pulled into the email discussion, because I just knew that email was such the wrong way to be having this discussion. I was really angry at the way some people responded to Brittany, and I'm sure an email response on my part wouldn't have alleviated the situation. Your video helped talk out these issues in an honest and open way. Thanks for taking the time to posting it.

Dooser said...

Following this, my comments were censored.

Casey said...

My reply:

Barrera said...

Hi, I wish to know how do you insert videos in your blog. I´m trying to do that in my blog, but I don´t get to do it.
Could you give me some hints? Thanks a lot.

Enric said...

The post went by faster then most 2-3 minute vlogs I watch. When people deal with and relay real issues that people care about duration collapses.

Rupal said...


BionicBuddha said...

Objectifying any human should be wrong, in principal. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of insitutions (including mainstream media) which perpetuate sterotypes and myths...One can always hope, but I'm not sure that will ever change...

Anonymous said...

ah shut up and POP A NIP!

Anonymous said...

Although I am not one for political correctness, I like what you have said. I have found that attempting to be an assertive woman these days usually attracts friendships with lots of guys. One of the hardest things I've ever attempted is being feminine and assertive at the same time. In fact, a lot of the time, I doubt if the two can ever co-exist.

Thank God this isn't television. I coud almost feel our culture shatter when Ryanne listed that television was "sexist, racist, and classist." At least now we have a venue to say it in. I hope Vblogging stays not like television forever. Television is a horrible invention that has only perpetuated stereotypes.

I don't want to live in a world anymore where my boyfriend tells me that I can't cut my hair because he doesn't want to feel like he's making out with a dude.

I don't want to live in a world anymore where people become irked, or hold their breath, when i tell them i am falling in love with a girl.

I don't want to live in a world anymore where these issues are ignored and placed under a label like "liberal" or "democrat" or "conservative" or "republican".

but this vblog makes me realize what kind of world I do want to live in, and that's one where we can talk about these issues, and express in a nice private venue, how we feel. Our world doesn't have to be impersonal anymore, we finally have the ability to learn about things from one another that upset us.


and maybe one day ill have the guts to make a post like this without being anonymous.

and if i do,
its because of shit like this.

TELL ME! said...

How do you post videos on your blog? tell me!

Andreas Haugstrup said...

Barrera, go to for a comprehensive guide.

Your mom is like a tree said...

video is objectifying. Video is a an image and images are not the real thing but only one small perspective of the total reality.

Devlon said...

"...doesn't have to be this way anymore"...yes, I agree, that was my main issue with this whole thing... point of view/response (if you can hear it in all the rabling) is here

JuanFalla said...

I agree, but not 100%. Not ALL TV is sexist. I mean, its obvious that the actors are ALL BEAUTIFUL, and that the women have to have big tits to make it, but NOT ALL TV is like that.

Today there are so many channels that if I'm interested in nature, I have certain TV channels which are all about nature; if I'm interested in sports, there are TV channels for sports, etc.

Yes, what's nice about videoblogging is that ITS REAL, and made by REAL PEOPLE. That's great! And that's what I like about it.

But it was just a matter of time for -tv shows dressed as videoblogs- to appear. As you said it Ryanne, people will not watch, I mean, maybe once or twice, but ultimatelly the content is more important tha the person giving us that content.

If they're looking for a "hot female" for a golf videoblog, believe me, I'm not going to watch it. Why? Because I couldn't care less about golf. I don't play it and I don't watch it.

What I want to say is that I watch videoblogs (and TV shows, and movies) not for the people, but because of the theme they treat.

Natasha said...

omg, this was really a great subject to ignite conversation on...

i have the same thing where all my friends have been guys, all my cousins are guys. i was always the other girl, so i too, just overlook this issue alot. i wonder how to promote women bloggers/videobloggers.

Crash said...

Interesting stuff, but at the same time there is an elitist attitude going on here - "This isn't TV, they posted on the wrong blog"... Shouldn't all points of view be welcome? Yes, it is a silly, juvenile post, but come on; does one person's misguided words deserve this much anger? And by the way, yes - I am a white guy, thank you Killer B for maligning my opinion before I even get the chance to post it. I'd like to think that diversity means more then vilifying white males.

kelley_in_sf said...

I missed the debate... but all it makes me think is... don't people realize golf sucks? (I know, I know... thats not what the debate is about)

Actually I wanted to respond to Ryanne about the comment she made about having guy friends. Do you forget what a pain in the ass a lot of women can be? I tend to find the cool women mixed in with the male dominated scenes. The ones flashing thier tata's *figureboobs* just remind me of the girls that I have tried to avoid all my life.

I am new to this whole vlogging thing and I am looking forward to getting to know some non-figureboob women with something to say.

I enjoyed the video. haha... *figureboobs*... that cracked me up.

Ferran said...

I like a lot your blog, congratulations. You have a big page rank


Imagesmith said...

Great site.......I have linked you on my site

Philip said...

ALL TV is sexist, unless of course youre watching National Geographic.

schlomo rabinowitz said...

Yes, I couldn't keep my mouth shut. I made a video.

But you knew I was going to make one anyway, so really, there's no surprise here.

Except my boobs. Those are a nice surprise.

R2K said...

Love the vlog man : )

fishmonkey said...

liked the blog liked the topic got interested in the whole thread, unfortunately i'm stuck using internet cafes at the moment so time is money and i've used a heap allready following this.
The issues here are fascinating, i got into all this when I was studying contemporary art and we looked at MUDs (Multi-user dungeons)as the origins for the modern online fractured personality, is Vloging part of this? as 'your mom is like a tree'[Sic] said video is in itself objectifying. That said I agree with other posts that your video conversation explored the issues really well. As you said the emails and postings seem not to be a constructive forum for this kind of debate, you get massive polarisation of views, it's almost a form of electronic graffiti you put your comment up there for the world to see but there's no real comeback. Which is why I have respect for what you've done here, your vlog gives you an electronic credence an e-reputation, a bit like having stars on e-bay. Does this mean the web lacks a productive discussion forum? Anyway I'm rambling off the subject. So i'll go now and leave us on the burning question where is the female voice in society?

PS I am A white male but I'm British, does that help?

kesar pista said...

i've been silently watching your vlog for over a year. i am a woman who has yet to vlog myself.

it is the evolution of things; the internet is just another distribution medium. just as we receive more postal letters from direct-mail marketers than our family, friends and bill collectors combined, we will also receive more vlog content from media makers who want our buck.

"Men act and women appear. Men look at women. Women watch themselves being looked at."
-John Berger

people will do whatever they want with vlogging. most still love and watch mainstream media, in addition to vlogs. so when we make media, we imitate what we know and love. similarly, when taking still images, most people imitate the kodak, snapshot look, and when they aspire higher they aim for the national geographic or other magazine look.

some just don't want to be heard; most don't think they have much to say. just as you get worked up when vlogging gets adultered with calls for "hot" women, i get upset when vloggers market products -- consume this, consume that, even if it's consume the little man, the all-natural brand.

keep vlogging. i love your voice.

bottomunion said...

testosterone is a bitch.

Enric said...

estrogen is a bastard.

amy said...

hi ryanne and jay,
we very much enjoyed your chicken stroganoff convo. we recorded it along with brittany's rant plus some our own thoughts on the matter for a special edition of our audio broadcast entitled "Radio Wednesday to Vlogosphere."

we're not ready for video just yet, but maybe some day.

yours, amy

MeerKatje said...

Hi Ryanne and Jay,

I have taken the time to download the conversation and really enjoyed it. As a COMPLETE newbie to videoblogging (not having done one, ever!) I believe you are onto something when you say that not many women know about it. It DOES however present a powerful tool for expression. I am thinking, thinking...maybe, just maybe, it could be very useful in recording impact of development initiatives here in Southern Africa. I work as a development consultant in pro-poor projects and videoblogging offers some fascinating solutions. My mind is racing...

Brah said...

Take a look at and you will see Sex type Videos pushing the boundries get more comments then any other Videos. It's a sign of how even on a site like the message is lost..

D-Moll said...

Ryanne's Video Blog is (among other things):
a show
a channel
a consumer's choice
a commodity

It comes free with purchase of a computer and high-speed internet access.

It advertises websites, businesses, a book, clothing, mugs, buttons, browsers, conferences, and more.

Ryanne: "This is not about fucking selling shit, this is about talking to each other and making things that we care about, you know...right?
Jay: (laughing): right! right!

I think selling comes as a by-product of making things you care about, in your case.

I also think there are SOME entertainers and journalists on TV who care about their work, and are not in it for the money, but who get paid a lot. That money comes from advertising, and a lot of that advertising promotes harmful products and/or harmful stereotypes. How to resolve that? I don't know.

My point is that this is a complex issue. I'm conflicted myself. Personally, I choose to watch your vlog over something else because I appreciate discussions like this, and this is where to find them, which is your point about vlogs in the first place. They aren't talking about this on TV.

However, if a racist, sexist, fascist wants to start a videoblog, they are free to. It might even become popular. And, just like before videoblogs, all we can do is speak our minds and try to convince people that we are right.

Keep up the good work.

french/new/wave/nerd said...

I'm quite the metro hispanic male -reared in a home entirely dominated by liberal women. My bedtime stories was the SCUM Manifesto. Like you Ryanne, I had more friends of the opposite sex, perhaps because I understood their plight just as I understand yours and Britney's. Most women are accustomed to being silenced in backrooms of popular opinion, and I applaud you for resisting. But I also applaud men like Jay who are unflinchingly opening themselves up to such resistance.

It's wonderful you're in San Francisco because when I was there, I met a woman who was proudly touring with her rainbow flag and saying how homosexual men were condemned by christian fundamentalists in the 80s when AIDS was an epidemic. She was saying that we can't blame men's natural urge to fornicate, and if it's with another man then of course the chances of STDs are doubled. But women are more willing to connect on a more emotional and itellectual level, so naturally they were the least likely to get AIDS. Therefore, lesbians are the chosen people of the world. -her words not mine, just food for thought.


Le Flashing Blade said...

The trouble with the advert for a 'hottie' is that it is putting artifice and style before content. I get a kick out of finding Amanda Congdon very pretty but I keep going back to Rocketboom because I like the content first , and I also like Amanda's daft personality second.

I also have to admit that Ryanne's vlog first caught my attention all the more because I was crushing on those eyes, lips and raven black hair! But that isn't why I keep going back. It's because of the snippets on her life, seeing New York, SF and Ryanne and Jay's travels. It's also about keeping in touch with this new Vlogging thing.

Blogging & Vblogging is at its best when it is personal, and is less contrived. In terms of my own blog I often just write a review on some film that I've seen, but I'm not trying to pretend to be some film critic and I've got no ambition to do the reviews for the local town newspaper or anything. It's what I liked about the film and often more importantly what it means to me, how it influenced me.

I'm all for there being blogs like Rocketboom that get popular and can start doing adverts to pay their expenses. When we get someone looking for a 'hottie' for their blog then it looks like they want to jump on the bandwaggon as a money making thing. Content and what you're about first - keep it real.